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Sep 08, 2007, 08:36 AM // 08:36
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#41 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Guild: The Circle Of Nine[NINE]
Profession: E/N
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In Retrospect...
Did anyone notice the (self) in parenthesis at the end of the skill description? It only effects the monk it's on. I brought the skill up as a question of why no one used it. They all stated it as being useless or a waste, when imo it really isn't. Is it for every bar, not at all. Is it for every person? Hardly.
Yet, can it be used effectively? That is a mixed bag, but i tend to believe it can be, by my own experience of playing. Others disagree, and i understand why. Yet, I still wouldn't call it a waste. For a better example, if you are playing a 2 monk backline(PvE/PvP) and an E/Mo. The Ele and the second monk have Aegis on their bars, you are playing the protection monk with RE on your bar. If Aegis is cast while you do the protect thing, and happen to cast say [skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill] on yourself, then RE as the Aegis is wearing off. [skill=big]Release Enchantments[/skill] At the normal 10 Div Fav that's 25hp per enchantment removed from yourself only, but healing the whole party. The div fav bonus applies, if I'm correct, but don't quote me on it. If it doesn't apply then that's a 50hp party heal for 10e that the monk would have used anyway. If DF does apply, then thats an 80hp heal partywide! [skill]Heal Party[/skill][skill]Light of Deliverance[/skill] In the point of comparison, the spell in question if effected by DF would be less energy intense in this scenario than HP, yet possibly less effective than LoD, by the numbers. Also, consider that all monks spec into Div fav for the passive healing bonus anyway. That said, it would give a use to Div fav not normally used by the general monk. However, I would probably rather use it on a 3 monk/2 monk(/w monk Secondary) team, in order to cover all the bases before attempting such an experiment. In any event it was a thought i was batting around. Thx for all the previous input. P.S. Did I mention that it works for compass range? That blew me away, too. Last edited by Darkpower Alchemist; Sep 08, 2007 at 09:02 AM // 09:02.. |
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Sep 08, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05
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#42 | |
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I like yumy food!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Where I can eat yumy food
Guild: Dead Alley [dR]
Profession: Mo/R
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Quote:
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Sep 08, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24
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#43 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a bridge
Guild: Team Quitter [QQ]
Profession: Mo/
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Just take Heal Party if you want a non elite party wide heal. By the time you've got RE up to the same power, its costing just as much and taking more skill slots.
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Sep 08, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00
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#44 | |
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Alcoholic From Yale
Join Date: Jul 2007
Guild: Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]
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Quote:
Or......you could just take LoD? dieplzkthxbai cukieplz |
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Sep 09, 2007, 12:19 AM // 00:19
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#45 | |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Guild: The Circle Of Nine[NINE]
Profession: E/N
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Quote:
[skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Deny Hexes[/skill][skill]Release Enchantments[/skill][skill]Zealous Benediction[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill] I see nothing not covered in this bar. Do any of you? Monks that are ressing aside, this bar has all the bare essentials and incorporated RE into the build. Yet, let's not argue about it. Keep using what you're used to. I found out the answer to my question long ago. |
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Sep 09, 2007, 12:25 AM // 00:25
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#46 | |
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ǝuoʞoɯ
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
really, it's trash. give up on it.  also using deny is a waste, congrats. ~
__________________
Burning for your life
Some day it will burn out Ready to sacrifice my life For the perfect dream |
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Sep 09, 2007, 12:47 AM // 00:47
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#47 | |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Guild: The Circle Of Nine[NINE]
Profession: E/N
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Quote:
Deny can work well in hex heavy areas when already using RE, which is a Div fav spell, so 2 hexes can be removed with one use of DH. If that bothers you so much, use whatever hex removal you want. You come out of nowhere and bash a solid bar with no more than 2 words that don't mean anything like "It's Trash" and think that is enough to dismiss it? People are funny. How about a full critique of the bar I put up. Tell me how it would not work, Mokone, and I'll let it drop. The sad thing is that this is the case throughout this forum now. People are so used to what they are used to that they refuse to even experiment. Refuse to even contemplate the "What ifs" of other skills that are not looked at regularly. All i have heard is that "What are you going to do? Cast a 10e spell then strip it off with RE?" That is the single most ignorant statement I have seen in this thread, to be quite honest. Who the hell plays this game like that? Then, you automatically assume that the player using RE would be ignorant enough to strip his protection while in the middle of getting pounded when he could kite away from danger throughout the duration of a protection spell to heal everyone when HE is the only one getting attacked? Geez, are we even playing the same game, people? Last edited by Darkpower Alchemist; Sep 09, 2007 at 12:49 AM // 00:49.. |
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Sep 09, 2007, 12:50 AM // 00:50
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#48 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Aug 2006
Profession: Mo/
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Quote:
please, as Mokone said, give it up you're giving trash to new monks who may think your terrible build is good
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Sep 09, 2007, 12:56 AM // 00:56
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#49 | |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Guild: The Circle Of Nine[NINE]
Profession: E/N
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Quote:
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Sep 09, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57
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#50 | |
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ǝuoʞoɯ
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
look, RE has 5 second recharge. it's quite hard to time with Deny because under certain circumstances you need it. and wow, imagine your team needs a quick and big heal but you are being bashed one? will you kite away and let the others degen to death or heal them up and sac yourself? WELL I WOULD JUST TAKE LOD AND SURVIVE 100% IN BOTH SITUATIONS. honestly, people try to gave advices, but you are the MOST STUBBORN PERSON i have EVER seen who DOES not accept ANY kind of defeat in ANY freaking form. yes sure, it would work, but it's pretty damn stupid to sac all those enchants on yourself first just to get the effect out of RE when there's lod which is currently pretty much the BEST MONK SKILL IN THE GAME, hell, IT IS THE MOST USED SKILL IN THE WHOLE FREAKING GAME BECAUSE IT IS SO IMBALANCED. please, give me ONE proper reason to use that bar over lod hybrid. it can prot as well, heal better and does a better job. if you need the spike heals from ZB, suck less and learn to prot. goodbye, stop being so damn arrogant with your huge ego.
__________________
Burning for your life
Some day it will burn out Ready to sacrifice my life For the perfect dream |
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Sep 09, 2007, 02:06 AM // 02:06
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#51 | ||
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Guild: The Circle Of Nine[NINE]
Profession: E/N
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My ego? You haven't said one thing valid in your post. You're internalizing...that's not good for your blood pressure
 . Arrogance has nothing to do with this arguement. What is my point is that You could very well use RE, yet the vision behind its use seems to escape you normal forum jokeys. You want to now say the ZB is a bad skill,too, used by those who can't protect? That LoD, in a previously dead skill line that no one would touch with a ten foot pole is better than what I put as a bar? Fine, I'll play your game. Quote:
If the monk is doing that role, then he/she is doing a greater service than the primary frontline, correct? Your use of an LoD hybrid bar is popular due to the concept that spamming healing is good. ZB is a solid elite, though it can be replaced by either SoD, RC, or SoR. The effect doesn't change nor does its effectiveness. The concept of protection is to divert/avoid as much harm to your team as possible, and the attempted use of RE doesn't change that goal or the intention of the bar I put into discussion. Your arguement is based on opinion and what you are comfortable with, and I totally understand that your "opinion" is that LoD is better than RE, and it is- afterall it's an Elite for a reason. Yet, besides that, your arguement is more about what is popular than what is logically possible and plausible. Every new monk that comes around caps LoD and thinks they now know what they are doing. You believe that ZB is a crutch for a person who can't play a protection monk, yet the only use for an LoD hybrid is because Infusers need a really good excuse to invest in healing Prayers until GWEN and the new healing prayers skills. Now, you can even smite/protect if you want to, while all along having div fav covering with constant small heals. Yet, you call the use of ZB, and moreover,RE, "TRASH". The day that innovation is trash is the day that the people learn the proper use of the word "Arrogant". Quote:
Once again, the point of bringing up RE was never about brainlessly using enchantments to power a partywide heal, or the encouragement of such nonsensical practices. It was a question of why I didn't see it being used. I got that answer and more, though it is based more on what is popular than what can work in the practical sense. The typical reasoning for not using it being that it wasn't on demand like HP or LoD, yet for it to need to be on demand, wouldn't that mean that someone doesn't know how to prot? HP is very interuptible at 2s cast, and LoD has the same casting time and recharge as RE, yet RE is powered by other enchantments. Since I have interupted/been interupted while using/playing against all 3 spells as a ranger, a warrior, and even a mesmer as of late-the comparison falls more to what the individual players feels better using. At current, my monks are spec'd regularly in Protection/Div fav/Healing(for Res Chant when being used, but mostly others do the ressing.Not my monks normally.) In any event, do what you wish. This was never about me winning an arguement, but about people seeing a skill in what I, personally believe, is its proper light. That doesn't mean that you should go out and find a place for it on every bar you run, but that when you see it, if unlocked for your toon, to just pick it up one day and try it. You might like it. Last edited by Darkpower Alchemist; Sep 09, 2007 at 02:13 AM // 02:13.. |
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Sep 09, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59
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#52 | |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a bridge
Guild: Team Quitter [QQ]
Profession: Mo/
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No. RE is useless. HP is better than it, LoD infinately so.
LoD isn't better than ZB? Try telling that to 99.9% of guilds in the game that use it. That must be for a reason, don't you think? It's all well and good hearing people talking about how protection is better than healing, but don't go repeating it untill you know what it means. A LoD bar can protect just as well as a ZB bar, and with a SoD partner you have more than enough. Active protection is vital, yes, but you're supposed to minimize damage taken so that it can be mopped up with an energy efficient heal...which is LoD. Anyone who plays a LoD bar as a heal bar needs to learn to monk. Anyone who plays a ZB bar as a primary healer in a backline needs to learn to monk. Anyone who thinks RE is better than HP and LoD needs to learn to monk. Anyone who thinks losing all of their self defence in order to get a decent heal is a good idea needs to learn to monk. Quote:
Mokone is right. Stop being so stubborn. DE is a horrible idea, take LoD or leave praty healing to the elementalists. It's as simple as that. Last edited by Tab; Sep 09, 2007 at 07:22 AM // 07:22.. |
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Sep 09, 2007, 08:47 AM // 08:47
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#53 | |
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I like yumy food!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Where I can eat yumy food
Guild: Dead Alley [dR]
Profession: Mo/R
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Quote:
Alchemist: That ZB crap is a horrible bar for all levels of play outside of RA. You have nowhere near the same partywide healing ability as an LoD stand monk, fails at protting if you try to replace the SoD/RC, and fails at split monk because partywide heals from RE aren't needed then. It may be decent for a third monk in HA, but who runs 3 monks anymore? It's all about the LoD+RC (or something like that?) That bar cannot survive the fast party degen pace of HA compared to an LoD on a 40/40 set with channeling. I'm no expert on TA, but all I can say is that partywide spells are less great in a 4-man team, and a bad partywide heal is even worse. Which leaves RA (aka PvE pretty much). You can take any half focused build and win there. At least this build fits the criterion of being half focused in that you are actually a monk, and not some smiting-pet-bow-trapper hybrid. Unless you can find a situation in which this would be a stronger replacement for another "standard monk," RE is complete crap. I've seen and run all kinds of random monk builds, but they for the most part serve a purpose in the context of team build (i.e. wards on monks, glimmer monk, etc.). I don't see those sets of RE bars being useful in any situation, and it's up to you to prove otherwise. If you can't, we're right and you're wrong and you should just go back to RA/PvE. Edit: Sorry, I forget this build may be good in FA/AB. So yeah, go back to PvE, where half decent builds appear to be fully decent! Last edited by Div; Sep 09, 2007 at 08:51 AM // 08:51.. |
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Sep 09, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42
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#54 |
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Alcoholic From Yale
Join Date: Jul 2007
Guild: Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]
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You're jumping through hoops to pull off a shit move in the end.
Take LoD and be done with it. |
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Sep 10, 2007, 02:13 AM // 02:13
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#55 |
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Hall Hero
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: California Canada/BC
Guild: STG Administrator
Profession: Mo/
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This is just a waste of a skill slot a skill point and 1K of gold or faction oh and to Darkpower remember that thread in Warrior Forum.This is a bad skill peace and harmony anyone.
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Sep 10, 2007, 03:12 AM // 03:12
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#56 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: guildhall
Guild: [DETH]
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peace and harmony has a very, well very few uses where its good. ive used it in doa where it was either p&h or blessed signet. bs was slightly better energy return, but im lazy
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Sep 11, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48
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#57 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Guild: The Circle Of Nine[NINE]
Profession: E/N
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Look, you people can say whatever you want about your opinion of the skill. You can all even say whatever you want about the application of the skill. Yet, in the long run, you have all the similar way of thinking. All in a glass tube, when it should be viewed from a worldly perspective.
I never denied that LoD was better as an on demand partywide heal, it is an elite of reknown for a reason. Yet, HP has its place, and that is on your secondary healer's bar. Not on your primary monk. Once again, I asked a question, and you all gave the same exact answer. Yet, your perspectives come from one side of use. As I said before, PvP isn't all the game is about. You doubt my ability to play the game as a monk at the higher end because I look at less popular spells and implement them? Hehe, fine. The funny thing is that I have monked for a couple people on the forum, and no complaints arised. I have played long enough to know what works and what doesn't. RE works, yet under heavy pressure it doesn't work well alone. In a 3 monk team, it would be solid, no matter how much you guys disagree. You want to say it's just for PvE? Fine by me, since this is not the PvP build forum, but the general monk forum, I'm still in the right place for the discussion. Any moderator that sees this can close it now,please. I got my answer. As for Age, you were wrong in the warrior forum, and you're wrong here. Get a clue,plz. Thx! |
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Sep 11, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57
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#58 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a bridge
Guild: Team Quitter [QQ]
Profession: Mo/
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Fail less. It's worse than HP and LoD. It's worse in PvE, PvP. It's worse on a primary healer or a secondary one. There's no way you can argue. Get a clue,plz. Thx!
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Sep 12, 2007, 03:39 AM // 03:39
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#59 | |
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Hall Hero
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: California Canada/BC
Guild: STG Administrator
Profession: Mo/
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Quote:
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Sep 12, 2007, 03:50 AM // 03:50
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#60 | |
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Alcoholic From Yale
Join Date: Jul 2007
Guild: Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]
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Quote:
Stop posting shit. |
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